Transcript: Mayor of Kingstown with Jeremy Renner & Dianne Wiest

MR. CAPEHART: Good afternoon. I’m Jonathan Capehart, opinion writer for The Washington Post. Welcome to Washington Post Live. “Mayor of Kingstown” is a new crime series from Paramount+ that shows what happens in a company town when the company is really the thriving business of incarceration. And it stars two titans of the entertainment world who join me right now: Academy Award nominee Jeremy Renner and Academy Award winning actress Dianne--sorry, Dianne Wiest.

I'm so excited to see you both I can't even speak. Thank you very much for coming to Washington Post Live.

MR. RENNER: Yeah, thanks for having us. Appreciate it.

MS. WIEST: Thank you. Hi, Jeremy.

MR. RENNER: Hi, Mom.

MR. CAPEHART: Well, Jeremy, let me start with you, because your character acts as an intermediary between folks in prison and civilians, and pretty quickly we learn how dangerous this work is. Was it difficult for you to identify with your character, Mike McLusky, who early on hints--and as we saw in the clip leading into this interview--he wanted to leave?

MR. RENNER: Yeah, I mean, there was a--there's a lot of work that had to be done to just get an understanding of this. This is a very sort of micro sort of part of our country, and there's quite a few of these all around our country. And just to get an understanding of what it is, I mean, you have to understand this is a town built out in the middle of nowhere, but then because of that, a community is birthed around it and the inner workings of how you just--look, I've never been to prison. I don't know anybody that's been in prison. I had to understand just the inner workings of it. And there's--it’s a dialogue too that Taylor and Hugh were very familiar with, that there's a shorthand to. And I had to really try to decipher what is--what means anything to me and so that I can show and express to audiences what is value, what isn't of value. That was the biggest sort of obstacle in the beginning of this thing, I think.

MR. CAPEHART: And you know, Dianne, when we first meet your character in the first episode--your character’s name is Miriam McLusky, and that's why Jeremy called you mom, because you play--you play his--you play his mother--she's in the middle of teaching a class at the women's prison in Kingstown. And it's a detailed and unvarnished look at U.S. history. What kind of research did you do in preparation for this role and the issues, particularly of systemic racism, that that scene and this series looks at unflinchingly?

MS. WIEST: Oh, that's so great to hear you say that. I--let's see, maybe seven years ago I read "The New Jim Crow" and it sort of--it did a lot to me. I don't know how to really explain it. But after I read that I wanted to become involved and learn as much as I could about the industrial prison complex that we have in America. We, you know, make money from the poorest of the poor who are incarcerated. And we incarcerate people for mental health problems, for poverty, for being of color, for immigration. I mean, our answer to everything is just lock them up.

And I wanted to do this show so much, because it's addressing that. There's so much in the show, I couldn't begin to do enough research. I mean, I'll be doing research for the rest of my life, hopefully, on the prison system in this country, which has been here from, you know, before the revolution, and continues full-fledged to this day.

MR. CAPEHART: Well, Dianne, I mean, just to stick with you for one more question on this, I mean, this isn't--the issues that you're talking about right now and the issues that are dealt with in "Mayor of Kingstown," it's not just acting for you. If I understand, you just took part in a protest, I think it was outside of Rikers Island to protest the deteriorating conditions in that--in that jail. Is that right?

MS. WIEST: I did. I did. I did do that. It was--you know, so many other people could tell you much more eloquently than I can what's happening there. But the people who spoke, there was, you know, a mother whose son was there, a mother whose son had died there because of they didn't give him his medicine. Somebody who hadn't eaten for three days because the food just never got to him. The cold, the COVID, the heat, name it and they're suffering it.

And no one is doing anything about it. No one. It's kind of amazing. You just say shut it down. Well, we don't have anywhere to send them. Well, there's a lot of other prisons in this country. We have more prisons than any other--more prisoners than any other country in the world, more than Russia, more than China.

MR. CAPEHART: And certainly, a lot of prisons in New York State, and the issue of Rikers has exploded on the scene more recently because of the number of suicides that have happened in that jail.

But let's come back to Mayor of Kingstown. Jeremy, I want everyone to take a look at this scene from the--from the series where your two characters have a tense mother/son discussion about your line of work.

[Video plays]

MR. CAPEHART: My favorite line in that scene, Jeremy, is when you say we don't break the law, we bend it to make--to make peace. Yeah, we--I just messed up my own notes. You say we don't break the law, we bend it, I think to make peace.

MR. RENNER: Yeah.

MR. CAPEHART: And part of your preparation, as you said earlier, you know, you did a lot to understand the vernacular, the culture, everything.

MR. RENNER: Yeah.

MR. CAPEHART: Were you surprised by the corruption that you learned? Because in that scene, the mother/son discussion is about the loss of your--of your brother, the character--the character and the family business, that is basically--the foundation of which is corruption.

MR. RENNER: I don't know if "surprised" would be the right word. I mean, it’d take a lot to surprise me. I'm sure that happens in politics and every other sort of facet of our lives. But within the--in the prison system, yeah, I could, I still don't know ultimately all--enough information to be--I mean, I just don't know enough to have that great an understanding of what goes on, because, look, I’m not in a prison. I don't work in the prisons. I had to act as if I was, because I play a guy that was in the prison system for 10 years, and doing as much research as you can and speaking with prisoners. And that is only one sort of tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of any understanding that anybody can grab here.

We still got to tell stories, we still have to be--have characters, and there's still drama here, right? So I leaned a lot on, you know, other people that are more researched, and I focused on the humanity of the characters and the behavior and you know, connections, obviously, with, you know, working with Dianne and the great, amazing cast here. Because ultimately, we're going to follow the story because we care about the cast. So, I mean, I just have, you know, that sort of stuff. And but yeah, being surprised, I guess, but, not really. You know what I mean?

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MR. CAPEHART: And Dianne--sorry, Jeremy--

MR. RENNER: Yeah. Yeah.

MR. CAPEHART: So, Dianne, I'll pose the same question to you, and in terms of the amount of corruption that we that we see in this series. Given your activism and everything that you've done with this series, have you been surprised by some of the things that you've learned in getting ready for this role or even portraying this role?

MS. WIEST: Yes, yeah, it's--I think the different levels of corruption, I mean, they're all separate tribes, kind of. And the cops are just another tribe, and they kill with the same--not glee, but with the same necessity that the people, the inmates, have killed. They see that it has to be done that way. I'm thinking now of my oldest son who's killed and the revenge that is taken for him. If it has to be done that way because this can go to court and drag out for years and he really might not be properly punished, he could get off, well, let's just shoot him. It's stunning. The architect--it's like an--it's like a--it's an architectural system, though. It's not random. I don't think it's random. It seems to me like it has a whole labyrinth of rules and regulations about what you do if you're a Crip or what you do if you're White or what you do if you're a guard, or what you do if you're the mayor of Kingstown.

MR. CAPEHART: I see you’re nodding, Jeremy. Go ahead, finish your thought, and then Jeremy can jump in.

MS. WIEST: No, that's all

MR. CAPEHART: Jeremy.

MR. RENNER: Yeah, I mean that's--I mean that's one thing, I guess. I mean, I suppose you learn or at least learn more about. But it just--you know, if you're--look, I’m trying to figure out a point of view here and coming from Mike McLusky, he’s an advocate for inmates, right? So, he tries to give the inmates voices because of what she’s talking about. You’re put into prison, and you're forced into--your hand into a certain way, a very, very rigid sort of rules. And prison rules is a very different sort of way of life. And sometimes there are people that are put in prison, they’re not guilty. Some people are put in prison for not a violent crime, but they have to now be--they’re put into a system now to become violent or that--there's not there's not a lot--it's not very hopeful, right?

MR. CAPEHART: Right.

MR. RENNER: If you're put in prison, it's fine, you're there to--you know, for your mistakes. But it's certainly not going to be an environment, because of these limitations that she’s talking about within the rules of the prison system--it's pretty gnarly, for lack of better words, and bleak. You know, it's pretty--it's pretty--you know [audio distortion].

MR. CAPEHART: We've got about seven minutes left, and I want to get each of you to answer a question specifically for you. Jeremy, I'll start. This show was created by Taylor Sheridan. And you've mentioned the name Taylor a couple of times in some of your answers. And his other hits include "Yellowstone" and "Sicario." What about Taylor's script for "Mayor of Kingstown" attracted you to the project? Was it Taylor himself? Was it the writing, the subject matter, or all of the above?

MR. RENNER: First, it was it was Taylor because I worked with him on a movie, "Wind River," and we were looking to work together for many different reasons, again, because we saw eye to eye on so many things. I said yes to do this show without reading one word of the script. And so when I did read it, you know, it's just a page turner and couldn't put it down. And it's exactly what I already knew it would kind of be. Taylor's always a hundred percent in his writing equally as ferocious and violent and--as he is poetic and thoughtful and intimate. There's always amazing, thoughtful themes about a lot of times people that don't have voices, whether it be Native Americans like we had in in "Wind River," and then in here. So there's always wonderful themes that he has that run through all his writings.

And then how he writes is, you know, really wonderfully, you know, cinematic and truthful and it's always honest, whether like, you know, this show is very, very honest and truthful and sometimes hard to swallow because it just like--you know, you're watching some stuff that is a--feels a little close to home but like then you also feel weird because you don't even know anything that's going on. You don't know any this is going on and you’re witnessing it. It's hard for me to kind of even like quantify it. But I would do--if he was director, Taylor was going to write, rewrite the phonebook, you know, and direct it, I'd be doing it. The phonebook, meaning like, you know, movie but--

MR. CAPEHART: Right. For the kids out there, for the kids out there, the phonebook was a place where you used to get someone's phone number.

MR. RENNER: You know, if he's gonna do the ABCs or something, you know, he's just--he's just got a wonderful, strong, powerful, unapologetic voice. And I think that's pretty exciting for cinema if you ask me.

MR. CAPEHART: Dianne, did you--were you like Jeremy? Did you take the role without reading the script?

MR. RENNER: No, I read the script. And because I am a small actor, I read the script, just looking for my role. Well, I read it, and I got so caught up I forgot to look for my role. And it didn't jump out at me. So, then I went back, and I reread it, and I tried to find my-- there wasn't much of a role there. But I care enormously. That's not true. And Taylor wrote a lot of stuff after we spoke for me, the teaching--the teaching in the prison being one of those things.

But he is a compelling writer. You really, you really--as Jeremy just said, you know, it's a page turner. And I hadn't met him. I didn't know him. I’d seen "Wind River" because of Jeremy, really. But I didn't know about Taylor. And now of course, I know--you know, I'm not a huge TV watcher, but I know about "Yellowstone" and the huge hit. And I know that--you know, I know who Taylor Sheridan is.

MR. CAPEHART: In the minute we have left, I’m sort of struck by the fact that, Dianne, that you're not a big TV watcher. Did that change during the pandemic?

MS. WIEST: Yep.

MR. CAPEHART: And so now you watch a lot of TV.

MS. WIEST: I'm a binger. The last time somebody asked me what I binged on, I said cake and ice cream, but now I know what you’re talking about. I said--I was on some show and I said, oh, cake, ice cream, you know? I had no idea. Clueless. My kids didn't let me touch the television because I always messed it up. And that's why I don't watch much.

MR. CAPEHART: I see. I see. Jeremy, during the pandemic, did your habits change? Did you go from not watching TV to watching TV or doing other stuff?

MR. RENNER: I did a lot--a lot of things, yeah. I was pretty active. I--first of all, you know, a shot two TV shows, and I’m happy to be working, you know, and this being one of them. I was pretty busy and still haven't stopped. I was blessed to be working, you know, whenever I could. In the beginning of the pandemic, though, I just--I was a stay-at-home dad and parent and also became a teacher for a long while. And yeah, I enjoyed that part of it. But personally, all I was doing was just staying busy and working as much as I could. And happy to be sharing the shows now.

MR. CAPEHART: Well, glad you were busy. Glad you were both busy because "Mayor of Kingstown" is--and I've only seen--I've only seen the first two episodes in preparation for this, and now I cannot wait to see the rest of them. Jeremy Renner, Dianne Wiest--and, Dianne, I can't be in front of you and not say these two great words. "Don't speak."

We are out of time. The name of the series is Mayor of Kingstown, and you can watch it on Paramount+. Again, Dianne Wiest Jeremy Renner, thank you very much for coming to Washington Post Live.

MR. RENNER: Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.

MR. CAPEHART: And as always, thank you for tuning in. To check out our upcoming interviews head to washingtonpostlive.com to find out more information and to register. Once again, I’m Jonathan Capehart, opinion writer for The Washington Post. Thank you again for watching Washington Post Live.

[End recorded session]

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